How The Last Dance revealed Michael Jordan's competitive mind

Originally published on September 22, 2020

Understanding how The Last Dance was made helps explain why the Michael Jordan documentary felt unusually intimate. In Episode 092 of the WHOOP Podcast, host Will Ahmed talks with Jason Hehir, director of ESPN and Netflix's The Last Dance, about the production choices that got Jordan to open up, the compressed timeline behind a 10-hour series, and the leadership lessons Hehir saw inside the Chicago Bulls.

Hehir is also the filmmaker behind Andre the Giant, The Fab Five, and The '85 Bears. His perspective is valuable because he is interested in a specific question that applies well beyond sports: what turns a famous figure into a fully human story, and what does greatness actually cost behind the scenes?

To listen to Episode 092 of the WHOOP Podcast, Jason Hehir, Director of The Last Dance, in full, head to the WHOOP Podcast on Spotify.

Originally published on September 22, 2020

How did Jason Hehir learn to work around elite athletes?

Hehir learned early that access is never enough. To do useful work around elite athletes, a filmmaker has to stay calm, stay prepared, and avoid acting like a fan.

That approach started long before The Last Dance. Hehir grew up in Boston around sports, worked as a ball boy for the Boston College basketball team, and later spent years in live television at NBC and HBO. That mix of backstage work and sports culture taught him two things: athletes notice when someone is starstruck, and credibility disappears fast when that happens.

Hehir says the best safeguard is task focus. If the interview matters, the job takes over. That mindset is close to what many high performers describe in other WHOOP Podcast conversations, including Mike Mancias on preparing LeBron James, where routine and preparation create calm under pressure.

Hehir framed the rule clearly:

"You can't be starstruck from a professional level because they'll smell that on you immediately and you lose all credibility."

What you should take away

• Comfort around elite performers is a professional skill that comes from preparation, not personality.
• Credibility improves when the work becomes the focus instead of the person's fame.
• Early low-level production jobs can build the observational habits that matter later in high-stakes interviews.

If you want to hear Hehir unpack how early production jobs shaped his approach to athletes, listen to the full episode on Spotify.

How long does a documentary like The Last Dance actually take to make?

That early apprenticeship mattered once the job became much bigger. The Last Dance moved slowly as a deal and very quickly as a production.

Hehir says the project had been discussed for years before he joined it in July 2016. The challenge was not only creative. Mandalay Sports Media, the National Basketball Association, Jordan Brand, ESPN, and Netflix all had to agree on rights, structure, and timing. By the time production truly accelerated, Hehir and a small team were trying to make 10 hours of documentary television at a pace he considered extreme.

His numbers make the workload easy to understand. A one-hour archival documentary can take about a year from concept to final delivery. The Last Dance became 10 one-hour parts, used 108 interviews, and was made by about 10 full-time staff over roughly two years. Hehir also learned at ESPN's 2018 upfront presentation that the series had expanded from eight hours to 10, after the announcement had already been made publicly.

The scale of the project also changed how he researched the world around Jordan. Hehir initially thought 10 hours would require much deeper material on supporting figures, including former National Basketball Association commissioner David Stern, whose influence on the league is covered in Episode 001 of the WHOOP Podcast with David Stern.

When Hehir described the speed, the numbers carried the point:

"We were working at quintuple the pace with a pretty small staff. We only had 10 of us who were working on it full-time."

What you should take away

• A long-form documentary can be delayed for years by rights and partner agreements before major production begins.
• Hehir estimates that one hour of archival documentary work often takes about a year from idea to delivery.
• The Last Dance compressed 10 hours of storytelling, 108 interviews, and a small full-time staff into about two years.

If you want to hear Hehir go deeper on the production timeline and the 10-hour surprise, listen to the full episode on Spotify.

How did Jason Hehir get Michael Jordan to open up on camera?

Once the schedule was set, the real test was Jordan. Hehir needed the first major interview to succeed because the whole series depended on getting candid material from its main character.

Hehir's first formal Jordan interview took place on June 26, 2018. He knew the session had to accomplish two things at once: gather enough material to cut Jordan's parts for the first four episodes, and leave Jordan willing to do it again. Hehir also had to work without knowing how Jordan behaved in long interviews, whether he would welcome pushback, or whether he might shut down after a question he disliked.

The breakthrough came from recognizing Jordan's constant appetite for competition. After a pre-interview car ride in which Jordan casually bet that they would see 10 pairs of Jordans on the way to the arena, Hehir realized even the interview itself needed a game inside it. That insight shaped the rapid-fire format and the famous iPad sequences. Showing Jordan clips of rivals like Gary Payton and Isaiah Thomas gave him something active to respond to rather than leaving him in a static question-and-answer setup.

Hehir later understood that same instinct while building the interview script:

"So he doesn't know who I am, there's nothing on the line [ ...] but he needs to play a game at all times. That was really informative to me in scripting the interview for him. Keep him occupied. [ ...] That's where the iPad came from."

What you should take away

• Hehir treated the first Jordan interview as both a content session and a trust-building exercise.
• The iPad format worked because it turned passive recall into live competition and reaction.
• Interview design improved when Hehir matched the format to Jordan's personality instead of forcing a standard setup.

If you want to hear Hehir unpack the iPad idea and the first Jordan interview, listen to the full episode on Spotify.

What did The Last Dance reveal about Phil Jackson, Scottie Pippen, and leadership?

After Jordan opened the door, the series could widen from one superstar to the system around him. Hehir's reporting left him with a strong view of why the Bulls held together as long as they did.

On Scottie Pippen, Hehir came away struck by how loved he was inside the team. The financial tension, the famous 1994 playoff refusal to re-enter, and the public criticism around his contract all stayed in the story. Still, Hehir says teammate after teammate described Pippen as the relational counterweight to Jordan's harder edge. That balance helped explain why the Bulls could absorb Jordan's standards without breaking.

Phil Jackson mattered for a similar reason. Hehir saw a coach confident enough to give Dennis Rodman special rules, bring meditation and silence into practice, and still remain the unquestioned authority. Jackson could do that because the players believed he knew exactly what the team needed to win. The lesson lines up with other WHOOP Podcast conversations about identity, discipline, and adaptation, including Reggie Miller on building a new athletic life after basketball.

Hehir's reporting on Pippen was unusually consistent:

"Scottie was beloved by that team. That's what I didn't realize. He was the good cop to Michael's bad cop. We interviewed 108 people and they all adore Scottie Pippen."

What you should take away

• Pippen functioned as the emotional balance to Jordan's harder leadership style.
• Hehir says 108 interviews pointed to the same conclusion about how much teammates respected Pippen.
• Jackson's authority came from competitive trust, which let him manage personalities in ways many coaches could not.

If you want to hear Hehir go deeper on Pippen, Rodman, and Phil Jackson, listen to the full episode on Spotify.

What does Michael Jordan's most emotional scene actually say about winning?

The final leadership lesson in Hehir's account is simple: Jordan's most revealing moment was not about nostalgia, fame, or even family. It was about the emotional cost of his standard for winning.

Hehir says the end of Episode 7 stood out immediately while filming because it exposed a tension he had been watching closely. Off camera, Jordan had struck him as respectful and decent. On camera, Jordan was finally confronting the public image of himself as ruthless. The scene became powerful because it did not flatten either version. Instead, it showed that Jordan understood what his methods took from him and still believed those methods were necessary.

That is also why the moment lands so hard for viewers. Jordan did not break down while discussing his father's death. According to Hehir, the only time he asked for a pause was when he was describing how deeply he believed in that philosophy of competition. The scene turned a sports myth back into a person.

Hehir's description of the moment remains the clearest summary:

"The only time he really got choked up and the only time he said, 'I need a break' was because he was so emotional in talking about just how adamant he is that you have to have that philosophy to succeed."

What you should take away

• Hehir saw Jordan's most emotional moment as a statement about competitive philosophy, not image management.
• The end of Episode 7 worked because it held Jordan's public ruthlessness and private humanity in the same scene.
• Viewers responded because the scene showed the cost of greatness instead of only the result.

The bottom line

• Jason Hehir built credibility with elite athletes by treating preparation as more important than access.
• Hehir says a one-hour archival documentary often takes about a year from idea to delivery.
• The Last Dance was produced at unusual speed, with about 10 full-time staff creating 10 hours of film in roughly two years.
• The first Michael Jordan interview had to deliver usable material for the early episodes and preserve Jordan's willingness to come back for more.
• The iPad reaction format worked because it matched Jordan's need for competition and live engagement.
• Hehir's 108 interviews reinforced that Scottie Pippen was a stabilizing force inside the Bulls, not only a sidekick.
• Phil Jackson's leadership worked because players trusted his judgment enough to accept unusual methods and unequal rules.
• Jordan's most emotional moment in the series came when he explained the standard he believed winning required.

Frequently asked questions about things discussed in this episode

How does WHOOP help you understand the cost of long workdays?

WHOOP shows the physical load of long workdays through Strain, sleep, and next-day Recovery, which makes busy periods easier to compare over time.

What does WHOOP do for travel-heavy schedules?

WHOOP helps you spot how travel changes sleep timing, sleep duration, and Recovery so you can see whether a demanding schedule is catching up with you.

How does WHOOP track sleep when your routine is irregular?

WHOOP automatically tracks sleep and naps, then shows sleep need and sleep performance so late nights and short turnarounds are visible in one place.

What can WHOOP show about mentally stressful periods?

WHOOP can show how stressful stretches line up with recovery markers such as resting heart rate trends, heart rate variability, and reduced sleep quality.

How does WHOOP help when ambition starts to outpace recovery?

WHOOP makes the tradeoff visible by showing whether high strain is being matched by enough sleep and enough recovery over several days.

What does WHOOP measure that is useful for people who perform under pressure?

WHOOP measures sleep, recovery, strain, heart rate variability, and resting heart rate, which helps you see whether pressure is turning into a sustainable routine or a mounting deficit.

When your schedule starts to feel more like a playoff run than a normal week, WHOOP can show whether the pressure is sharpening performance or quietly draining recovery.